Saturn vs Dreamcast Twinsticks

[graefocs]

Hello,

I tried reading through the other threads, but do not seem to have come across an answer to this.

Does anyone own both the Saturn and Dreamcast Twin Sticks and can therefore post a comparison? Is one built better than the other?

Are the sticks spaced the same distance apart?

Are the controller dimensions roughly the same? One complaint i have about my DC sticks is that if I tilt both sticks forward, the entire controller tilts on my lap... doesn't feel good and does not feel responsive. This might be solved if the controller was wider in North/South orientation.

I know that handles are the same, but just different colors... but are the shafts the same? Metal or plastic? I also know that the number of available big buttons are similar.

I'm trying to see whether the DC or Saturn stick will be better to mod... I'm interested in whatever will be more sturdy.

Also, has anyone come across good sources for Saturn sticks? Everything on ebay is over $100, and most are shipping from Japan. I thought they might have been cheaper.

I'm also still considering making a complete ground up mod with 2 sanwa trigger sticks... but I'm struggling with the controller case issue -- i just don't have the tools to fabricate one from scratch. If anything, I would have to gut a Hori HRAP or maybe even buy a Saturn TS and install Sanwa controls (of course this is assuming that the Sanwa's feel much better than the Saturn ones, but that's a different comparison I wouldn't mind seeing).

[MentholMoose]

Does anyone own both the Saturn and Dreamcast Twin Sticks and can therefore post a comparison? Is one built better than the other?

I'd say the DC Twin Sticks are slightly better overall. The key difference is the joystick base; the DC Twin Sticks use a retrofitted Seimitsu LS-56-01 joystick, an actual arcade-quality part, whereas the Saturn TS have bases built by ASCII.

Are the sticks spaced the same distance apart?

It's roughly the same, though I don't have actual measurements. The spacing on both is smaller than the arcade.

Are the controller dimensions roughly the same? One complaint i have about my DC sticks is that if I tilt both sticks forward, the entire controller tilts on my lap... doesn't feel good and does not feel responsive. This might be solved if the controller was wider in North/South orientation.

The dimensions are similar. This is a common problem, and I even have it with my relatively huge arcade Twin Sticks. Really the only way to resolve it is to mount the DC or Saturn Twin Sticks to something secure. I prefer to play sitting at a desk, so I am able to secure the Twin Sticks using clamps. If you're playing on a TV, you could try securing the Twin Sticks to a coffee table, or a TV table. One of my friends secured it to a box sitting on the floor, then sits on the floor with the box and Twin Sticks between his legs. Another thing you might try if you want to have them on your lap would be to strap them to your legs, or put Velcro on the bottom of the Twin Sticks and wear some fuzzy pants/shorts!

I know that handles are the same, but just different colors... but are the shafts the same? Metal or plastic? I also know that the number of available big buttons are similar.

The shafts are both metal and similar. They are both totally cylindrical, with nothing added to prevent the handles from slightly rotating around the shaft (this give them a slightly "sloppy" feeling compared to arcade Twin Sticks which have shafts designed to significantly reduce this slight rotation).

The Saturn Twin Sticks lack a START button (AKA the "special" button) in between the sticks, and only have a PAUSE button, whereas the DC Twin Sticks have both.

I'm trying to see whether the DC or Saturn stick will be better to mod... I'm interested in whatever will be more sturdy.

Well, the DC Twin Sticks out there are newer than Saturn Twin Sticks, although both are quite old. Furthermore, it seems that DC Twin Sticks likely have replacement parts available since they are based on Seimitsu joysticks (we're still waiting on confirmation from Jumbo on this). So, I'd give the edge to DC Twin Sticks, although both should be OK if you maintain them properly and don't abuse them.

Also, has anyone come across good sources for Saturn sticks? Everything on ebay is over $100, and most are shipping from Japan. I thought they might have been cheaper.

With the release of VOOT for Xbox 360, the quantity demanded increased a lot, so they are not cheap any more. Pray for a release of official Xbox 360 Twin Sticks!

[Dreamcazman]

Does anyone own both the Saturn and Dreamcast Twin Sticks and can therefore post a comparison? Is one built better than the other?

I'd say the DC sticks are of better quality, but the average person wouldn't really tell the difference. IMO they are both pretty good, but the only thing is that the Saturn sticks were made longer ago and are thus older than any DC twin sticks. Depends on how the microswitches hold up over that time and how the previous owner treated them.

Are the sticks spaced the same distance apart?

The Saturn sticks are closer together than the DC Sticks. Saturn sticks are roughly 16cm apart, whereas the DC sticks are roughly 19cm apart. I prefer the DC distance myself, and that's the spacing I used on my custom VO:OT sticks.

Are the controller dimensions roughly the same? One complaint i have about my DC sticks is that if I tilt both sticks forward, the entire controller tilts on my lap... doesn't feel good and does not feel responsive. This might be solved if the controller was wider in North/South orientation.

Rough dimensions:

Saturn Sticks - 32 x 23 x 5 cms.
DC Sticks - 28 x 22 x 5 cms
The Saturn sticks have a larger base which is nice and both feel about the same weight. If you can, use them on a coffee table or something similar. I could never use them on my lap.

I know that handles are the same, but just different colors... but are the shafts the same? Metal or plastic? I also know that the number of available big buttons are similar.

AFAIK the sticks and shaft are the same, metal. They are held in place to the joystick handle by the two bolts and nuts that run through the handle and shaft.

I'm trying to see whether the DC or Saturn stick will be better to mod... I'm interested in whatever will be more sturdy.

Depends what sort of mod you want to do. For me, replacing the entire base, the Saturn sticks were better as the bases have lugs I could use screws with, plus they were the right colour. If you want a simple PCB replacement, then I'd go with the DC sticks.

Also, has anyone come across good sources for Saturn sticks? Everything on ebay is over $100, and most are shipping from Japan. I thought they might have been cheaper.

The first set I got (for custom sticks) cost me $80 from Japan. Then I found a set locally here in Australia, mint condition with box for $60. Luck of the draw I guess, but I wouldn't pay more than $80/$90 for them, unless they are brand new or close to it.

I'm also still considering making a complete ground up mod with 2 sanwa trigger sticks... but I'm struggling with the controller case issue -- i just don't have the tools to fabricate one from scratch. If anything, I would have to gut a Hori HRAP or maybe even buy a Saturn TS and install Sanwa controls (of course this is assuming that the Sanwa's feel much better than the Saturn ones, but that's a different comparison I wouldn't mind seeing).

You could do that, but the bases on the arcade sticks are huge and you'd need a deep box to house them. Using a Hori stick won't be deep enough. Have a look at my custom thread, it should help you out a bit if you want to fabricate your own box to your dimensions.

[graefocs]

Thanks for all the great info fellas!

I forgot one major gripe about me DC sticks... I can't play them in my boxers as the metal bottom is always way too cold! Plenty of ways around this, I know. Also, I'm a little bit reluctant to mod these sticks, even via MentholMoose's reversable method, as these are now going for so much more money on eBay. Not like I would ever sell them, but there's value there, you know?

Dreamcazman, I saw your custom sticks. It's beautiful! I live in a tiny NYC apartment so don't have any space to set up a proper woodshop. It's quite sad.

Would either of you guys happen to have the Sanwa ＪＬＪ－ＰＬ２－８Ｖ sticks or know where to find dimensional info? I'm wary about going this route as it will cost me at least $300 to build the controller ($200 for each stick + $100+ for custom case + more money for PCBs and buttons), but am still curious.

I do indeed have my fingers crossed for Sega to announce something. I haven't seen any updates on the Japanese column and am holding my breath.

[Dreamcazman]

I forgot one major gripe about me DC sticks... I can't play them in my boxers as the metal bottom is always way too cold! Plenty of ways around this, I know. Also, I'm a little bit reluctant to mod these sticks, even via MentholMoose's reversable method, as these are now going for so much more money on eBay. Not like I would ever sell them, but there's value there, you know?

The Saturn sticks have a metal bottom too, so you'll still have the same problem.

Dreamcazman, I saw your custom sticks. It's beautiful! I live in a tiny NYC apartment so don't have any space to set up a proper woodshop. It's quite sad.

Thanks! That would make it a bit hard. I can imagine your neighbours wouldn't be very happy if they heard power saws going

Would either of you guys happen to have the Sanwa ＪＬＪ－ＰＬ２－８Ｖ sticks or know where to find dimensional info? I'm wary about going this route as it will cost me at least $300 to build the controller ($200 for each stick + $100+ for custom case + more money for PCBs and buttons), but am still curious.

Menthol Moose would be you best source of info in regards to the arcade stick components.

[DeepInTheHops]

I have both but I'm too lazy to dig my DC out of the closet to try them out.

Supposedly the DC sticks are better at returning to neutral, making Watari dashes a little easier. Is this true? I don't remember there being too much of a difference, although I remember the DC sticks feeling a bit clickier.

[MentholMoose]

For now I would definitely wait for further info from Sega. They said there could be an update this week, and it's currently 2PM Friday in Japan, so an update could be coming very soon.

I don't have any info on the Sanwa sticks. Try checking with Sanwa to see if they can provide details. Also, somebody has actually done custom Twin Sticks with the Sanwa sticks:
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yms-zun/20090601/twinstick4

[graefocs]

Damn those look diesel. But all that cold metal...

Yeah I agree that the best thing to do is wait for now. Where did you see that they were going to announce this week? I didn't catch that at http://vo-ot360.sega.jp/column.html

I actually have a different mod idea I'm thinking over right now. I actually don't mind using the Xbox controller so much. I find it very easy to navigate the analog sticks. The only problem is that asymmetrical grip makes it tough for me to constantly have my fingers over all the shoulder buttons. I'm ok with keeping my right index and middle fingers over the shoulders, but if I do the same with the left hand, I lose my grip on that side of the controller. Maybe it's just the shape of my hands and length of my fingers. So instead, my left middle finger is kept at the bottom of the controller for grip, and the left middle finger hovers between the left trigger and L1. It's not ideal by any means... if I ever find myself need to press both left shoulders, I lost a second or so switching my hand position which is more than enough time for me to get pwned.

I saw some enterprising folks at acidmodz pulled off a position swap of the dpad and left analog stick. I might try this. Gives me a good reason to finally pick up a Dremel kit.

[MentholMoose]

The first few sentences of the 6/2 update says that an update on something is coming soon, possibly this week.

[gtrainx]

Seems like there is a new update in the Japanese VO:OT website about the twin sticks:

http://vo-ot360.sega.jp/column.html

Translated:

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... 26hs%3Dz5Z

Looks like Oct is when the sticks will be coming out...

[graefocs]

You were so right Menthol. I will never doubt you again.

[Dreamcazman]

Good news, but 30,000 yen! Damn...