advanced techniques

[Davo87]

RT+CrRW (poison shotgun) -> BT+CW[L]+Jump.

I can get it 60% of the time with this pad setup:

Left stick push = Right turbo + crouch
Left bumper = left Turbo
Right bumper = right Turbo
with default pad settings.

So RT+CrRW gets left stick push and right trigger -> BT+CW[L]+Jump requires: both bumpers + both triggers with the index finger pressing Y for jump at the same time. The hard bit is to coordinate the jumpcancel afterwards with left stick push it feels awkward as a button.

I have to give the left stick push the crouch bcos my right hand cannot switch to jump fast enough while pressing RT and RW. Tho it feels incredibly awkward after getting used to the X being LT and B being RT.

[somepunk]

Yea, it's do-able on the pad, but man is it hard to pull, specially mid match sometimes! lol

[Davo87]

Im starting to be able to pull off V laser here and there. Primarily practiced it on forward slide dash RW when purple or red. I made a replay of myself doing it and watched several times. Its pretty much instant after the recovery animation and if done right it cuts the freeze animation. If not I get nothing, but standing there. Or if I do it too late I get the normal crouch laser. While sometimes when I try to pull of crouch laser after the dashattack, I get V laser instead. I cannot pinpoint the timing but to only judge its at the starting frame of the freeze time based on the watching the replays.

[Davo87]

Also, Specineff is one of the VRs with a fast movement trick that can be locked in (the VR moves so fast that it flickers)... it's something like, do a backward-diagonal moving crouch LW in the correct way to make the VR start flickering, then input crouch at the right time to lock in the fast movement. Coincidentally, Raiden also has a fast movement trick (I even saw one of the top ranked players do it a few times when I played him yesterday... annoying to see Raiden disappear to the opposite end of the map one second after you get knocked down ).

Isnt that called 'rowing". Tho I cannot do it without twinsticks. Tho for some reason I can do it on VOOM PC keyboard.

[MentholMoose]

Also, Specineff is one of the VRs with a fast movement trick that can be locked in (the VR moves so fast that it flickers)... it's something like, do a backward-diagonal moving crouch LW in the correct way to make the VR start flickering, then input crouch at the right time to lock in the fast movement. Coincidentally, Raiden also has a fast movement trick (I even saw one of the top ranked players do it a few times when I played him yesterday... annoying to see Raiden disappear to the opposite end of the map one second after you get knocked down ).

Isnt that called 'rowing". Tho I cannot do it without twinsticks. Tho for some reason I can do it on VOOM PC keyboard.

There is no rowing motion. You can try it yourself... just move in a direction, then input crouch. If you do it at the right time, you will "stuck" moving in that direction and speed. The trick is to "lock" in your movement when you are temporarily moving at a high speed.

[MentholMoose]

Can anyone give me tips on performing the CC->dash CC combo(Tsubame Gaeshi right?). I've pulled it once like once in training mode but I can't get it consistantly. Do I just have to be REALLY fast?

Sorry, I didn't see this post. Mainly it is a timing issue, but yes you do have to be quick. It's possible with the standard control scheme, but you will have to be pretty fast. I think it's probably easier to have two sticks for the inputs, i.e. the Twin Stick Type B scheme. With two sticks, you can do the dash input on one stick and the dash CC input on another. You do both inputs at almost the same time, so it's almost easy .

There are a lot of variations for these combos, but not all variations work with all VRs. With Grys-Vok, the variation I typically use is RW -> q-step right -> dashing RW CC. The q-step makes it harder to guard the dashing CC, plus I vary the timing for the dashing CC. This variation also works with Bal-Series, which I think is my favorite CC move in the game (the "fish" CC attack ), and can do some serious damage if both hits actually connect (about 90% against Cypher ).

[DZef]

Regarding tsubame-gaeshi, I am using Twin-A config and I can get it out fairly good with Cypher in training mode at normal speed QS'ing to the left. I practised for about 30 minutes in slow mode, and once you get your fingers programmed, returning to the normal speed only requires some small adjustments. After you get used to it, it actually doesn't have to be that quick...but then I am using Cypher so I have a longer blade to work with I have this little timing ticker in my head:

da-h (L turbo->LS) da (L turbo) da (RS back) da (RW)

What I found helpful is to focus on the first turbo press just slightly before the initial CC lands, then move the stick to QS cancel. Before re-learning this, I was re-learning this Fei-Yan combo (no longer works in 5.66) which would help grasp the timing of the first QS cancel:

CC CW->fwd QS cancel on first hit->guard cancel->guard reversal left

This combo was really nasty against Dordray in 5.45, as the fwd QS cancel was a shinku hit, so a total of 3 hits. In 5.66 Dordray goes down after the first hit. After you get used to the first QS cancel, make the QS a double click (button-stick-button) then add stick and trigger.

[ThomasMak0524]

Are there any advanced techniques for Temjin?

[Oolong]

So menthol, how bout some double napalm?

Man, you just had to go and get me started, didn't you? Here's a sample video of some napalm technique:
http://www.oratan.com/videos/tech_0-napalm/

Double napalm is a staple of most Grys-Vok strategies. It is based on a standard "combo", if you want to call it that, that works with many VRs and attacks (for example, Bal can do double mines).

With Grys-Vok, double napalm is done by walking LW followed immediately by walking cLW. The result is obviously an LW followed by a cLW, but less obvious is that the gauge usage is only the LW! So the cLW is "free". With this combo, things get particularly interesting with Grys-Vok. You can do walking RW followed by three walking cCWs, with one of the cCWs being free. Without the combo you can only do two walking cCWs. This one is pretty useful in combination with other harassment attacks to get a few hits, like when you opponent is low on health and you just need a few more hits. So for example, I'll do a standing cRTLW, then jRTCW, then the triple walking cCW. It can be hard to avoid at least getting hit by something! Or at least, it's hard not to be distracted enough while I go in for the kill with some dashing cRW.

You can also do walking RW followed by cLW, and guess what? The gauge usage is only the RW, so you get a free cLW. This is known as 0-napalm. Obviously this would be a bit too useful, so it was toned down by the developers. You can only get the free cLW if the LW gauge is within a certain range (around 50-65%, but I don't know exactly since I go by the color... kind of purple-bluish ), and the timing is particularly strict. I'm unable to consistently do 0-napalm with a 100% success rate yet. Though I have my timing down, I can be engulfed in napalm for a long time. Combined with careful usage of obstacles and the lock on information (remember, with napalm you cannot see your opponent, only the lock on), this is pretty powerful in some cases. So it is something like, double-napalm -> 0-napalm -> double-napalm -> some other attack and/or reorientate to opponent -> 0-napalm -> double-napalm -> attack/reorientate -> 0-napalm -> double-napalm -> attack/reorientate -> etc.

Still having trouble doing this consistently. Any tips on the timing? Just walk to the side, tap LW and quickly tap cLW, right?

[Sixfortyfive]

So I just read MM's big post on the first page with all of the Freeze Canceling info. Just to be sure that I'm reading this correctly, the freeze time at the end of a dash attack (not just a dash) can be cut short by doing this? To what extent is it cut, and do you know the specific timing for it?

Sorry, I didn't see this post. Mainly it is a timing issue, but yes you do have to be quick. It's possible with the standard control scheme, but you will have to be pretty fast. I think it's probably easier to have two sticks for the inputs, i.e. the Twin Stick Type B scheme. With two sticks, you can do the dash input on one stick and the dash CC input on another. You do both inputs at almost the same time, so it's almost easy .

Dashing CC is when you hold back on the stick and attack during a dash, right? If so, the timing probably wouldn't be any harder on standard than twinstick if you have rotation mapped to specific keys (such as the bumpers), as you can use those to perform the dashing attack instead of the analog stick.

[Zaarock]

Apparently cypher can do the speed boosting effect of CW when forward or back air dashing without shooting the projectile and using ammo... anyone know how to do this? I get it randomly in matches sometimes and cant seem to reproduce it in training mode. Also, I once somehow glitched the speed boost thing without firing so that cypher got double the speed gain, and flew off really fast.

[Knoxximus]

Good stuff fellas (especially the Moose's diatribe), and I understand most of it but...*nervously looks around*...maybe the newbs around here would appreciate a glossary of sorts...so maybe "they" will know what "cLTRW" stands for.

If there is one and it's been overlooked, my apologies.

*ahem*...for the record, I do know that cLTRW means "crouching left turbo/right weapon. O_o;

[MentholMoose]

Still having trouble doing this consistently. Any tips on the timing? Just walk to the side, tap LW and quickly tap cLW, right?

Yeah, pretty much. Walk in some direction, quickly press and release LW, then immediately do crouch plus LW. It takes practice to perfect it. Just practice a lot doing it in the direction you find easiest, and eventually start practicing in other directions (you can do it in every direction, which is an important skill for Grys-Vok).

[MentholMoose]

Just to be sure that I'm reading this correctly, the freeze time at the end of a dash attack (not just a dash) can be cut short by doing this?

Yeah, dash attack. You can do freeze canceling at the end of a regular dash, too, if you let the dash end by itself (i.e. you don't press turbo to cancel the dash). I personally never do this, though, and I don't even have the timing down, since I virtually always cancel regular dashes before they would end normally. If you cancel a regular dash before the normal end, you can then walk out of it without freeze time. This is actually an advanced technique in VER.5.66, but I'm still working on perfecting it.

To what extent is it cut, and do you know the specific timing for it?

I don't know the specific amount, but I'd guess about 75%. Note that this estimation is a comparison of the standard (uncancelled) freeze time, and the freeze time between the end of the dash and the beginning of the freeze cancel attack. This time of the attack should also be considered. VRs have different attacks; some have attacks more suitable for freeze cancels (the best attacks are quick and/or can be canceled themselves). Also, the dash freeze time varies by VR. So, the exact benefit of the dash freeze cancel varies by VR.

As for the timing, it is tough to say exactly. Basically, you do it when the dash ends. However, in online mode, there is input lag, so you have to compensate. After playing online, if I switch to offline mode, my timing will be off for a minute.

maybe the newbs around here would appreciate a glossary of sorts...so maybe "they" will know what "cLTRW" stands for.

My post actually has a quick summary of the conventions, and includes a link to an actual conventions FAQ by Scott Robinson.

[ThomasMak0524]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMVZNEzq5Xc
check out 1:17 How did he do the machine gun thing?

[Schooly D]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMVZNEzq5Xc
check out 1:17 How did he do the machine gun thing?

That's just Temjin's crouching Right Weapon. It fires a short stream of bullets.

[ThomasMak0524]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMVZNEzq5Xc
check out 1:17 How did he do the machine gun thing?

That's just Temjin's crouching Right Weapon. It fires a short stream of bullets.

he use cRW cancel into cLTRW cancel back cRW. How to do that?

[Schooly D]

Ah, I see now. I've tried it out in Training, and I believe it goes like this:

cRW -> LTRW -> walk -> cRW (sliding)

You fire the cRW, then you fire the LTRW. Before the LTRW finishes firing (since letting it run will sap your RW ammo to 0) cancel out of it with a walk (doesn't seem you can cancel out of it with another cRW). Then you hit cRW again, which translates into a sliding shot rather than a crouching.

[MentholMoose]

The entire sequence for that machine gun technique is done while crouching. This is what to do:
Stationary cRW, keep holding crouch and let go of RW, input LTRW (still holding crouch, so a cLTRW starts coming out), immediately tap one stick in one direction to start moving, immediately re-input cRW (EDIT: so walking crouch RW comes out). The timing for this will probably take some time to learn.

EDIT: In the video, the player follows this thing up with another walking cRW for good measure.

[ThomasMak0524]

I just did the machine gun thing. First I use cRW, then LTRW, after one little shot of the LTRW comes out, move and press cRW extremely fast to do it. Super cool move~